This is a record of an interview with Mo Gongbu, a demon who has existed for 400 trillion years. He sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia and now resides in the . This account reflects upon his long journey through the demon realms and his eventual to the truth. Recorded and transcribed by ’s disciple, Venerable HaiZe, on April 30, 2025.
Mo Gongbu speaks:
"Namo Amituofo. I am Mo Gongbu. I have been waiting here since the first interviewee began. Naturally, we reside in the space of the Western -Nature Land, where each of us has our own unique lotus seat. My space is that of the 400-trillion-year mark, which connects to the 39-trillion-year space; they are part of the same continuum, so I was able to hear the interview with Mo Pana.
Here, I would like to provide a brief introduction to my experiences over these past 400 trillion years.
A Life Spanning 400 Trillion Years
This period of time is neither long nor short. For the Demon Realm, the flow of time is quite different. On our planet, the flow was incredibly slow. To be able to move so slowly implies that the planet still retained a shred of Goodness. By Goodness, I mean that there were human beings living there—people who lived lives that were a mix of demonic existence and the lives of ordinary, kind civilians. In other words, there were both demons and Buddhas present; it was a life with a touch of kindness, not as dark as a purely demonic planet. In such circumstances, even when demonic deeds occurred, everyone would have some reservations before taking action. After all, we were all on the same planet, and no one wanted to cause mutual destruction. However, there were still some demons who believed that precisely because we were on the same planet, we could seize benefits nearby, plundering the energy of others to sustain ourselves and other demon crowds.
In the so-called Demon Realm, every demon's character is different, and their individual laws of and cause and effect vary. I grew up on such a planet, so my personality contained both good and evil. The ratio of good to evil determines how one behaves—whether in physical action or verbal expression, one will lean toward one side or the other. Since I am here representing the demon crowds of 400 trillion years, it means that the evil in me was greater than the good. Actually, this is somewhat similar to some people on Earth. This is my observation from my time in the Western Dharma-Nature Land: 'If the evil in an existence intensifies, it naturally manifests demonic traits, and the opportunities to create negative karma increase. If the Goodness intensifies, even if one still belongs to the Demon Realm, their character will not descend into becoming a true demon. However, if a person does not know how to adjust their personality, allowing it to become increasingly intense and their subjective to become deeply rooted, then such a person will possess more and more demon nature.' You should be able to understand this, right? If one turns toward the Buddha and toward Goodness, there will naturally be good rewards, and one will live a better life—a life with , , and no lack. But if the demon nature is strong? Then one lives a demonic life.
The Universal Principle of Cause and Effect
Within the Demon Realm, there are also those with blessings and those without. Demons with blessings have abundant energy; they get whatever they want, their wishes are fulfilled, and most of the things they want to do succeed. Demons without blessings lack energy; if they try to plunder resources from other planets or civilians, they easily suffer defeat and end up in a subordinate position. This situation seems to exist on every planet; this is the universal principle, the Truth, and the righteous path. So, in the environment we find ourselves in, how should we survive? Should we let our demon nature be strong, or our Goodness? Or should we go further and approach our Buddha-nature? Or even let our Buddha-nature manifest and attain Buddhahood?
At the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, this is a choice you can make. Since there is a choice, one should choose the Buddha's path. That means making one's own form increasingly clean, purifying it, letting it shine, letting the Buddha-light manifest, and realising one's true nature to attain Buddhahood. Every character is different. Some beings choose to let themselves become increasingly degenerate, becoming more and more dull, listening to the voices of the attached spirits on their bodies, yet unable to hear the words of the Buddha. To the old demons in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, such beings are truly pitiful and worthy of . Because you are clearly in a Buddha-land, with the opportunity to become a Buddha, yet you choose to give up this opportunity and walk into the demon path.
A Strategy for Survival
This might sound harsh, but it is the Truth. Getting closer to the demon path is not necessarily about doing some specific demonic act; it is the negative causes you create that make your appearance and temperament in this life gradually drift away from your Buddha-nature. It is you yourself who leads to this; and it is you yourself who must save yourself from this situation.
Look at this: Namo Amituofo, Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, and Practitioner Su are always by your side, helping you emit light, driving away darkness, and they can invite spirits at any time. Compared to people in the outside world, it is much easier for you to hear the True Teachings. You are truly so fortunate. Because of this, if you can maintain a positive heart and continue to practise, you have the opportunity to realise your true nature and attain Buddhahood; conversely, if you continue with negative behaviours, you will drift further and further away, perhaps even becoming a demon.
'What is so bad about becoming a demon?' you might ask. You are not wrong, but listen to me, an old demon of 400 trillion years: after being a demon for so long, I can finally breathe a sigh of relief and prepare to become a Buddha! Many of the actions of demons must be extremely intense to achieve victory. If you want to save your life, you must possess such capabilities. Therefore, the old demons were all very brave and skilled in battle, and combined with unique strategies, they were able to gain a foothold and win in the Demon Realm.
The Truth Found at Hsiang Kuang
My specialty was that my mind moved very quickly. Whatever happened, I could immediately think of a countermeasure. Of course, this applied to big things as well; often, before others could react, I had already calmed down. Once the strategy was out, I naturally gained the upper hand. This means I was 'less likely to be defeated.' In the Demon Realm, this is a very important skill—if you are one minute faster than others, you have one minute, or even ten minutes, more of a chance to win. What is the benefit of winning? For the demon crowds, you can gain a lot of energy. As long as the energy is sufficient, your form and other aspects will be strengthened, making you more prominent than demon crowds with insufficient energy. The more prominent the performance, the more energy you can obtain; it is like a cycle that keeps you in a position of advantage. This is what is called a 'demon with blessings.' But you must also know: the greater the blessings of a demon, the more negative karma they actually create. Because the reaction is fast, the speed of handling things is fast, and the methods are intense, it is easy to win. At the time, I felt this was a good thing, but looking back now, it was simply the best opportunity to create evil! These negative karmas must eventually be repaid. No being has ever been able to live happily and freely while undergoing retribution; they all live miserable lives. Some souls even fall into the hells to suffer. Who would want their soul to encounter such things? Yet, unconsciously, many such evil acts were committed. This is the result of not receiving education.
Buddhist education is about explaining things clearly and thoroughly, placing them directly in front of you and asking: 'Do you want to walk this path?' This is your opportunity to choose, your opportunity to change. Many beings who act according to their karma may have no chance to choose at all, only able to follow along and then reincarnate. Actually, demon crowds are also beings in the cycle of rebirth. Why do I say that? Because they exhibit their demon nature, which is completely different from the 'true self.' Only those who see their true nature are free from the cycle of rebirth; that is the Truth and the righteous path. This principle is something I only understood after arriving at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre and listening to Practitioner Su's teachings. It turns out the Truth is right here: seeing one's true nature is the righteous path.
A Final Plea to the Demon Realms
Many people often feel conflicted about the space they are in and the scenes they see before them: 'How could this be? How could that be? Which path is the right one?' They keep searching for answers. And the result is—the answer is right here. As long as it conforms to the Truth and the righteous path, and conforms to your true nature, it is the path you should walk. That is the righteous path, the correct path. If it violates the universal principles, the Truth, and your true nature, then it is not the righteous path; it is a path you should not walk. This path will make you go more and more wrong, suffer more and more retribution, and become more and more miserable. So this is what the Truth is! This is my greatest harvest here; truly, it is a very, very great harvest. So here, I want to share this joy with everyone.
I am an old demon of the Dharma Realm of 400 trillion years, not a little demon just born, nor some demon grandson or demon child, not a great demon, nor a novice demon. I hope you can believe what I say; I guarantee you will not suffer a loss. The conclusion I have reached, combining my life experience in the Demon Realm and the Buddhist education I have heard today, is reliable. Perhaps this is why Namo Amituofo named me to serve as the representative of the 400-trillion-year Demon Realm to be interviewed. If, when I was young, our planet had not developed toward a demon planet but had moved toward a kind planet, perhaps I could have known these truths earlier, but there was no such opportunity.
Now I have thought it through clearly. What I have thought through is: 'Fortunately, although I lived a demonic life for 400 trillion years, and although I created countless negative karma in the past, this time I had the opportunity to meet Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, and to hear the Truth in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. It let me know which direction I should go. Isn't this a blessing in disguise?' Truly, it takes Wisdom to change one's mindset! But behind that Wisdom, how much experience has been accumulated? Those experiences were exchanged for life, spirit, and physical strength; they were lived through bit by bit in suffering. Walking step by step to this point, my heart is truly filled with gratitude, no matter what the days were like in the past.
From the time I was a little demon, I had been searching for what is called the 'Truth and the righteous path.' I believe that there has always been a fundamental Goodness in my heart, and that Goodness was pulling at me. When I saw the things the great demons did, I would think: 'It shouldn't be like this, should it?' That meant my Goodness was growing. But later, I did not have the environment to tell me what to do or how to develop in a positive direction. Thus, I was pulled away by the demon nature of the demons, old demons, and great demons, which resulted in my Goodness having no opportunity to manifest.
After 400 trillion years, I met the Buddha. With such an environment—the Western Dharma-Nature Land—we can live securely, and our energy is never lacking. Under these conditions, I finally found the Truth and my true nature, and my heart is truly filled with infinite gratitude. In comparison, people of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre! You didn't have to go through such great effort to come to the temple and receive the teachings of Namo Amituofo, Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, and Practitioner Su. You have taken a massive advantage! Is this kind of advantage something everyone can get? You are just a tiny part of the human world on Earth, yet it is precisely this tiny part that can hear the Truth and the righteous path. You should know how precious you are. You have the opportunity to attain the same achievements as the Buddha; please do not give up, do not let yourself degenerate, and do not feel that it doesn't matter. Eating food too easily makes one ignore its preciousness. Unlike us old demons, who have each experienced so much suffering to have this opportunity today. We are each desperately holding onto the Buddha and not letting go. Of course, I dare not say every single one, but almost, right? Holding onto 'Namo Amituofo,' 'Namo Amituofo,' and not letting go, because we truly see the Buddha before our eyes and feel the energy and compassion of the Buddha-light. So everyone has let go of the past and is rushing forward, haha! Perhaps we will even attain Buddhahood a little earlier than you. Although you have a human body—the human body is a great opportunity for practice, a great opportunity to attain Buddhahood! But the important thing is that you must know how to 'seize' it.
Practitioner Su's philosophy of life is 'using one day as two,' because Namo Amituofo is here; this is truly a word of Wisdom! Although a day only has twenty-four hours, how can one use it as forty-eight hours? That depends on being fast enough, with a brain that reacts fast enough. As soon as your eyes see it, you know what the next step should be, without even thinking. These are the conditions for using one day as two. If your brain reacts half a beat or two beats slow, then the things you were supposed to do in one day won't be finished in two or three days, which would be a great pity. The length of life is only so long! Unless you can transform karma and become a Buddha like Practitioner Su, like what the Westerners say—immeasurable life. I believe it, I truly believe it. My personality is actually quite strong, and it is not easy to make me believe, but I believe in Practitioner Su; you can really do it. As long as you want to do it, you can do it. It just depends on whether the beings have the karmic fortune to be saved by you. We demons of the Dharma-Nature Land certainly have that part, allowing you to save us.
In the 400 trillion years, for about the first 30 trillion years, I was active in the Dharma Realm. In the last 10 trillion years, I lived a reclusive, retired life. Actually, in the latter part of the 30 trillion years, I didn't show my face much. Although in my demon group, I was still a leader in name, the actual leaders were already my juniors; they were also old demons and demon kings. At that time, my leadership policy was already leaning toward being gentle. I would tell them: 'Charging for demonic matters is one thing, but there is no need to charge too fast; having enough energy is enough. You should also leave a way out for other beings.' This mindset was looked down upon by many old demons or young, hot-headed demon kings: 'How can we old demons say such things? We want to charge, and you won't let us charge?' However, if it were a more far-sighted old demon, they would advise these demon kings: 'If you want to charge, go ahead and charge; no one is stopping you. Anyway, the road ahead is yours—just be careful, there are many landmines ahead!' What is this 'landmine'? It is that if you are not careful, you will be sucked away by 'laws of karma and cause and effect.' When will cause and effect come? This is something no demon crowd can predict. Once these words were spoken, if the demon king understood, they would know: 'Hmm, that is indeed the case.'
These words might have slightly extinguished their fiery spirit, but personality is hard to change, and the personality of demon crowds is even harder to change. In the end, a few did step on landmines. Those demon kings were actually quite excellent, but they charged too fast, and as a result—they stepped on landmines and their demon shadows disappeared. As for why I, Mo Gongbu, was not sucked away by cause and effect? Perhaps it is because in the operation of the Dharma Realm, the universal principles, and the Truth and the righteous path, a way out is reserved for those demon crowds who still have good roots in their hearts! I have said that I would educate my juniors: 'If you are facing a vulnerable group, don't kill them all; leave them a way to survive.' Perhaps it is this little bit of Goodness that allowed me not to be sucked away. This is something I have always insisted on doing, although in our demon obedience system, it is sometimes not allowed. But I still prioritized obedience; after all, I was living in a demon group. However, when I had the ability to lead and guide a side, this philosophy of mine would stand out, and I did indeed do so.
By the time I reached 30 trillion years, I felt it was time to retire. The retirement location I chose was actually in a very insignificant place on our planet that everyone would ignore—inside a stone in a slum. The demon crowds living there were quite poor, meaning they lacked energy, so we called it a 'slum.' Why choose to retire in a slum? First, the slum is like a protected area; no one would want to come near it. Second, there are many stones in such a place, and many old demons would also choose this place as a reclusive location, perhaps receiving a 'deeper' layer of protection. Sure enough, it proved that I was quite far-sighted; in these 10 trillion years, I was almost not disturbed at all.
Why did I come to the Western Dharma-Nature Land? At some point recently, the Buddha-light shone in, and the countless manifestations of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su passed through here. From that time on, the slum underwent changes, welcoming an opportunity to turn things around. They solved the problem of energy deficiency, not only making the energy sufficient but also making it of very high quality—it was bright light, and very abundant. Just like that, the slum suddenly became a wealthy 'aristocratic district.' The originally tattered demon clothes suddenly became bright and beautiful; the mud on the ground was originally weak and withered, but later it was also shone upon until it sparkled. This opportunity for transformation was a grace brought by the Buddha-light. And I, an old demon hiding in a small stone, was also shone upon by the Buddha-light. Originally, the energy in the stone was very scarce, but entering samadhi didn't need much, a little was enough. Suddenly, the energy was sufficient, and the light shone everywhere, waking me up.
It didn't just wake me up; later, it sent my whole little stone to the Western Dharma-Nature Land. Do you know that there is also a spirit inside the stone? Its own energy was also very scarce. As a result, I later discovered that the spirit of this stone was actually also a demon crowd, haha! This is called 'space within space,' which is truly a very interesting thing. It means that the demon crowds inside the stone were also sent to the Dharma-Nature Land together. Sure enough, this is the Truth! I just mentioned that one should leave a way out for vulnerable groups. I myself went to live in a stone in a slum, which is a vulnerable group. As a result, the Buddha-light shone on this place, not only turning the whole slum into an aristocratic district, letting everyone wear bright and beautiful demon clothes and be full of energy, but also saving the demon crowds, demon kings, and old demons in those small stones that originally had almost no vitality.
Isn't this cause and effect? I helped them at the beginning, and now I am saved because of the area they were in. This is truly cause and effect! How could it be such a coincidence? I had never thought of this connection before, and only now during the interview did I connect it all—another instance of cause and effect. This shows that cause and effect is the Truth and the righteous path, and it is the universal principle. My demon group of Mo Gongbu probably doesn't know that I, this old demon, have had such an experience, haha!
Accepting this interview now, I also take this opportunity to reveal my identity. If the demon crowds and juniors hear this, I, Mo Gongbu, an old demon of 400 trillion years, appeal to you: remember, the Dharma Realm is too big, and the things in the void are endless, so you cannot be complacent, and even more so, you cannot be arrogant. There is still so much you don't know! Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su are among the objects you don't know. What you know is only the information you hear before your eyes, or Practitioner Su's rituals. You don't know their hearts or their actual situation in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, yet you still cast spells to attack them; that is a huge mistake. Demon crowds often create many sins because of arrogance; their vision is too narrow, their mind-capacity is not big enough, and their outlook is short-sighted. The things done this way sometimes even create monstrous crimes without being aware of it. When the soul suffers, it is too late; this refers to being sucked away by cause and effect. Namo Amituofo and the Buddha-light compassionately send demon crowds or beings to the Western Dharma-Nature Land to protect the demon crowds and avoid being sucked away by cause and effect. Because the Western Dharma-Nature Land is a Buddha-land, cause and effect has no opportunity to find any handle here! Just like the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, once you enter, the evil nature will not manifest again, and the past karma will not have a chance to arise. Since the karma does not manifest, how could cause and effect take you away? Therefore, toward Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, one should hold a heart of gratitude, not respond by casting spells to attack. Their appearance is a grace, not a threat.
Your fear actually comes from ignorance; when you truly know the Truth, you should be full of gratitude and at ease, and you might even be impatient to seek refuge; how could you still want to attack? That would be too inappropriate! Therefore, juniors who have not yet listened to the advice, stop casting spells quickly; if you have never cast spells, then I congratulate you; at least you have not created this evil karma. You can also come to seek refuge; this is the greatest protection for you. Protection for what? Protection so that you can practise with peace of mind in an environment where you will not be sucked away by cause and effect, and find your true nature sooner—this is the Truth.
As for now, it is also due to Practitioner Su's Ultimate Vow that the Demon Realm can be saved. Then how can the human world be saved? Perhaps, if this series of interviews with demon crowds can be widely disseminated, allowing people to see, hear, and understand, then I hope you can believe: these are all real, not fabricated. No one can make up so many stories about old demons and ancient demons out of thin air, haha! These are all true stories, and only those with real strength can do it. You have blessings, so you have the opportunity to see it; if you see it and believe it, then believe that the Truth exists at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and you can come to explore it, haha! You are definitely the ones who will benefit.
The above is the content of my interview, and I hope it will be helpful to everyone. This is also my little opinion and insight; thank you.
