Interview with Lawyer Hu Hung-lick (Founder of Hong Kong Shue Yan University)

A renowned educator, barrister, and political figure in Hong Kong, he co-founded Hong Kong's first private university—Hong Kong Shue Yan University—with his wife, Chung Chi-yung (the first female judge in China). He lived with integrity, contributing profoundly to education, the rule of law, and social welfare in Hong Kong.

Interview Chief Writer: Venerable Fa Hui

5 July 2026

Hu Hung-lick:

I am grateful to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for saving me, Hu Hung-lick. At this moment, I am on the Western Land of Dharma Nature at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Goombungee, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia, sharing my experiences and insights after death. I am deeply grateful for this encounter, which has allowed me to understand the true essence of education.

In this life, I was a lawyer, but that was not my true vocation; education was the profession I pursued and dedicated my life to. Practising law was for a living, but running a school was my purpose and my life. I devoted all my efforts, working in unison with my wife, to Shue Yan University. I have never felt a moment of regret; on the contrary, I believe that every bit of effort I put into Shue Yan University fulfilled the goodness and simplicity in my heart.

I am grateful for this rare and beautiful causal condition that allowed me to find a valuable goal in this life—to establish a school. This was by no means easy, and there were many tests along the way, but I believe that as long as there is a vow in one's heart, all these can be overcome.

In my later years, I continued to work as a lawyer, solely to contribute a little more to this school, so that one more young student could receive some help—that was all good. Education is truly the foundation of a nation. The purpose of Shue Yan University was never to seek fame or profit, but only to cultivate more talent for Hong Kong and for our country.

However, having arrived at the Western Land of Dharma Nature at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Goombungee, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia, I now understand that the development of Shue Yan University has not yet reached its end. This is because the current Shue Yan University is still only learning worldly knowledge, with the goal of helping people in the world survive better. The abilities cultivated are mainly professional skills and various forms of knowledge, while the spiritual elevation part has been neglected.

This is also the most important thing I have learned since arriving at the Land of Dharma Nature—the Body-Mind-Spirit must all be developed simultaneously. Among them, the "heart" should be the main axis, driving the positive changes in the body and spirit; this is the core of Buddhist education. Therefore, this heart is very important; the so-called "heart-Dharma" is entirely about putting in the work on this heart.

I have always respected and admired the education of our Chinese ancestors. However, after learning the Buddha’s teachings, I realised that the Buddha’s teachings are more ultimate and complete, allowing everyone to achieve success in their spiritual life. Spiritual achievement is not about any competition, inequality, or comparison and discrimination of who is higher or lower, but about allowing every sentient being to recall their original face, have the opportunity to elevate their spirit, and attain Buddhahood.

It turns out that the Buddha’s teachings are so equal, helping all beings to attain Buddhahood equally. Because the indestructible Buddha-nature in everyone's heart has never had any distinction of high or low; there is no one who is better or worse; it has always been equally compassionate, pure, dignified, and bright.

In this life, I cherished Shue Yan University as if it were my own life. This is a very meaningful thing, not limited to a personal scope, but capable of expanding to a larger range to help more people.

I am very grateful for such an opportunity. In fact, influenced by traditional Chinese culture, I have always believed deeply in the laws of karma and cause and effect. Good begets good, and evil begets evil—this basic law, I believe, cannot be violated in anyone's life. Therefore, I have always believed that truly good education is to teach a person how to be a good person, so that they can further help others become successful. Because only on the basis of being a good person can such talent be used by society and the country. If so much effort is spent, and what is cultivated is only a selfish person, then what is the use? Even if they have the best academic qualifications and knowledge, and have achieved much in their career, it is ultimately difficult to avoid harming themselves and others in the big picture and in various subtle aspects.

I also started practising the emphasis on character development from myself, and I tried my best to demand of my own words and deeds, hoping that I could be a person who benefits others. So I worked diligently all my life, striving to run the school, and dedicated everything I had to Shue Yan.

But after death, to my surprise, I entered the ghost realm. It was a grey, dim world, and the days passed in a daze. The ghost realm has various appearances that seem familiar to the world, but it is ultimately different from the human world; one can survive there without a body. I drifted in the ghost realm, and my heart could not help but feel a bit lost, not knowing where my soul would go in the future. That sense of uncertainty and anxiety about the unknown grew uncontrollably in my soul. However, fortunately, I always maintained an attitude of being content with whatever happens, feeling that in the ghost realm, one just lives one day at a time.

Even in the ghost realm, I still tried my best to contribute what I could and help others as much as possible. I don't know how much time passed, when suddenly a huge golden light appeared in the ghost realm. Under the guidance of the golden light, I came to the Western Land of Dharma Nature at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.

After listening to the sutras and hearing the Dharma, I realised that the six realms of rebirth truly exist; it turns out that not only do people in the world need to go through countless pains and suffer in impermanence, but even the ghosts in the ghost realm, and even the spirits in all realms of the six paths, are actually suffering because they cannot be the master.

It turns out that in the six realms of rebirth, no soul can control or escape the shackles of karma. When will one go to which place? Is this place good or bad? All are unknown; one can only passively accept such a fate.

If it were not for Namo Amituofo coming to the world to bring the great Dharma that allows everyone to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, countless people and spirits would not know when they could be liberated from the suffering of reincarnation. It turns out that the method to transcend reincarnation is very simple: just let your heart rest on this Buddha-name "Namo Amituofo". Because all impermanence comes from the changing thoughts; it turns out that all instability has always been due to the restlessness of one's own heart.

After understanding that there is not a single bit of "self" in the Universal Principles, Truth, and the Right Path, and that everything is pure and good, I realised: as long as this heart can remain "unmoved," it will no longer be turned by impermanence, nor will it fall into the six realms of rebirth. If one can wholeheartedly recite "Namo Amituofo" and make a vow to save sentient beings, one can be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.

How can the heart truly achieve the state of being "unmoved"?

Actually, the method is very simple; one only needs to let go of everything in the world. Whether it is wealth, fame, status, emotional relationships, or any objects, when all these can leave no trace on the heart, the heart will naturally not be pulled by the world. Because all these external appearances and illusions are no longer in the heart, how can they shake this heart?

As long as you can let your heart no longer dwell in the secular, but dwell on this "Namo Amituofo," you can truly achieve the skill of an unmoved mind. This requires an attitude of renunciation and compassion, truly seeing the suffering of the world and the six realms of rebirth, clearly understanding the suffering of yourself and the countless karmic creditors within your body, and vowing to leave this world, because the world represents everything related to this body—it turns out that this body is the source of all evil.

The problem is not the body itself, but that we have misused the body. This precious body was never meant to be attached to feelings and desires, but to allow every Buddha who comes to the world to use it to save all boundless suffering sentient beings. Just like Practitioner Su of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, after realising one's true nature and attaining Buddhahood, one can use "body technology" to exert the ability of countless manifestations to save sentient beings. His countless manifestations cover the entire vastness of the Dharma Realm, galaxies, and the Earth; there is not a single sentient being that Practitioner Su has not vowed to save. The Buddha's heart is so broad and boundless, because all external appearances and states never depart from the true self, and have never truly left the Buddha-land dignified by the true self.

In the eyes of the Buddha, the chaotic human world is actually no different from the pure and bright Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. It is just that the sentient beings within it need the irrigation of the Dharma water and the great Dharma of Namo Amituofo to help them awaken, allowing them to understand that they are always in the same form as the Buddha.

It also allows sentient beings to see clearly that the difficult state they are in can actually be as free from suffering and as blissful as the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, because all manifestations and changes in the external environment stem from this heart; when the heart can truly be turned, the state one is in will also change accordingly.

Now, Practitioner Su is performing Chao Du in the world at all times. He recites this "Namo Amituofo," and with his countless manifestations, he brings the great Namo Amituofo to shine golden light everywhere. When the golden light shines, it can help the spirits bathed in Buddha’s light leave the sea of suffering and enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature. This is also helping this suffering world return to its original appearance, just like the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.

What I am saying at this moment is not ethereal, but a beautiful vision that can truly be achieved. Education is so important; it can help everyone make changes from within. In terms of traditional Chinese culture, the education of character and morality already contains a part of the Universal Principles, Truth, and the Right Path. It is just that in the Buddha’s teachings, it is a further elevation, to help everyone attain Buddhahood. Because the appearance of every Buddha in the world represents that immeasurable and boundless spirits can be saved.

Now, everyone in the world should quickly come to know this precious land, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Because the courses offered here are the supreme laws of the universe, that is, the Universal Principles, Truth, and the Right Path. If children can receive such education from a young age, it will be of great help to their Body-Mind-Spirit development; the most practical thing is that it can prevent them from waking up the karmic creditors within their bodies, which would cause their souls to suffer.

In the past, I always thought that one must first know how to be a person before one could achieve success in academics. However, my concept has now developed further; I understand that besides knowing how to be a person and understanding the character and morality one should have, one must first know how to be the master.

The reason we experience the pain of Aging, sickness, and death is that we cannot be the true master of ourselves. There are so many sentient beings in our bodies; if a thought violates the Universal Principles, Truth, and the Right Path, it is inevitable that one's soul will be obscured by these beings, and even lead to a part of the soul being kicked out of the body.

When your control over this body is no longer one hundred percent, slowly, you are actually getting closer and closer to hell, because this is a process that will gradually deteriorate. Once the body is occupied by sentient beings, as time goes by, the occupied part will become more and more. One day, when all control of the body has been seized by karmic creditors, what will happen to your soul?

To be able to be the master, the method is actually very simple: recite this "Namo Amituofo" and completely merge your heart into this Buddha-name. Whether it is a sad heart, an angry heart, a resentful heart, or a happy, joyful heart, as long as you are willing to transform all mental notes into this "Namo Amituofo" Buddha-name, you will no longer be interfered with by the karmic creditors and sentient beings within your body.

Because this Buddha-name represents the Buddha-heart of Namo Amituofo, it is a pure and good compassionate heart, without a trace of evil, without a trace of selfishness, and without even a little bit of "self" in it. As long as you are willing to change your heart to "Namo Amituofo," you will naturally not leave any handle for karmic creditors.

In the past, I, Hu Hung-lick, only knew how to dedicate everything I had to running schools and education, but because I did not understand the Universal Principles, Truth, and the Right Path, so I entered the ghost realm after death.

It turns out that just being a "good person" is far from enough. The only path is to be a pure and good, great person. Even if there is only a little bit of evil thought, a little bit of selfishness, or even if any impurity is mixed into good deeds, it will actually cause you to continue wandering in reincarnation.

When I was alive, I did not have the chance to encounter the great Dharma of Namo Amituofo; otherwise, I would have firmly grasped such magnificent education and would have exhausted all my wealth to establish a school for Namo Amituofo. The content taught in this school is very simple: the Universal Principles, Truth, and the Right Path, entirely to help sentient beings understand that everyone can help immeasurable and boundless sentient beings like a Buddha, and also to help everyone attain Buddhahood.

Such a school, compared to Shue Yan University, holds far greater significance. This is because no matter how well-run a worldly school may be, it ultimately remains within this world; but if the school of Namo Amituofo is successful, it can accomplish countless Buddhas and help infinite suffering souls be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This can never be compared to the transient benefits of the world—worldly schools can only bring temporary advantages, but Buddhist education allows everyone to obtain eternal benefits. The mission of Shue Yan University has always been to cultivate more talent for Hong Kong and for the nation. However, what the school of Namo Amituofo aims to cultivate are Buddhas, one after another, and it is also the hope that all beings in the vastness of the Dharma Realm, the Milky Way, and of course, the Earth, can all obtain deliverance.

People in the world always believe that physical health is extremely important, because without a healthy body, one cannot speak of making any contribution to society or the nation; whether it is managing a family or a career, nothing can be achieved without a strong body as a foundation.

However, in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I see that most people in the human world are not actually in control of their own bodies; instead, their bodies are manipulated by karmic creditors or demon crowds within them, committing all kinds of sins and causing people to suffer immensely. This is the truth of the human world.

Therefore, I would like to propose a concept here: while physical health is certainly important, what is even more important than physical health is the health of the spirit. What is meant by the health of the spirit? If people can increasingly abide by the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, the degree of deviation will be smaller, and the health of the spirit will naturally be higher. To put it more simply, it depends on whether one can adhere to the principles of purity and goodness. If one can persist in this for longer, the spirit will naturally become stronger.

If an erroneous thought arises and cannot be transformed in time, then at the moment it goes against the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, it actually causes one's spirit to lose its immunity. The consequence is that the three hun souls and seven po souls are scattered outside the body, or one's spirit is locked within the space of the body by karmic creditors. This is a very miserable situation, but almost everyone has this problem.

So, why is the human world so close to the hells? It is because most people's bodies are no longer being used by their own spirits. Under the manipulation of karmic creditors, the body is used to commit all kinds of evil deeds, but after death, it is the spirit that originally mastered this body—that is, everyone's own spirit—that must pay the price according to the laws of karma and cause and effect. In such a case, how can one avoid entering the hells to suffer punishment?

Now, Namo Amituofo has come to the world to help people avoid the punishment of the hells together with Practitioner Su, and to have the opportunity to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. More importantly, it helps every child find their original self, which is the appearance of a great, fearless person, just like Practitioner Su. Everyone can originally be like a Buddha, saving immeasurable and boundless beings, depending on whether everyone is willing to truly let go of everything in the world. Embarking on the path of practice is not about being pessimistic or world-weary, but about having the ability to actively save the world after purifying one's own Body-Mind-Spirit.

Currently, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre has established Namo Amituofo billboards all over the world, and we hope that everyone can participate in this project. When more Namo Amituofo billboards are set up in every corner of the world, it means that more places have the opportunity to be bathed in Buddha’s light. This is of great help to the suffering souls of the world; and helping these suffering beings is, in fact, helping oneself, who is usually surrounded by these beings.

Having said so much, at this moment, I am in the Land of Dharma Nature, feeling very grateful to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for giving me this opportunity to speak more with the people of the world. All that needed to be said has been said; I hope that everyone can have the karmic affinity to believe in the great Dharma of Namo Amituofo together, and then you will be able to save yourselves.

Buddhist education, especially the Buddhist education at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, is truly the best education in the world, because it can help everyone truly stop suffering throughout their long spiritual life. The ultimate Dharma is now waiting for everyone to come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to seek the Dharma.

When you see Namo Amituofo, I hope that everyone can also remember that you were once like a Buddha, so selfless and compassionate.

At this moment, please recite this with me: Namo Amituofo. If everyone can keep reciting this "Namo Amituofo," one day you will be surprised to find that the principles taught to the world by Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su are actually truths that you have always known, but simply did not know how to express.

Gratitude to Namo Amituofo, gratitude to Practitioner Su.

Hu Hung-lick

A letter from Hu Hung-lick to his sons, Hu Yiu-su and Hu Wai-chung:

Here, I, Hu Hung-lick, want to say a few words to my sons, Hu Yiu-su and Hu Wai-chung.

First of all, I am very grateful to the Buddha for giving me this opportunity to convey these messages to the world from the Land of Dharma Nature.

My sons, you also know that I have dedicated my entire life to the school of Shue Yan, and I have never regretted this. It is just a pity that while I was alive, I did not meet the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia and did not come into contact with the Buddhist education of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.

After understanding the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, I finally realised that Shue Yan University should have had a more far-reaching mission, which is to help everyone's spirit walk smoothly through their short life, and even more so, to obtain peace and happiness in the long spiritual life after death.

Namo Amituofo now abides at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, having come to the world to help people obtain the benefits of being free from aging, free from illness, and the spirit never dies. The true antidote to aging, sickness, and death lies in settling this heart upon the Holy Name "Namo Amituofo." The power of human thought is very strong, but whether it causes a positive or negative impact on the Body-Mind-Spirit depends on whether everyone can make good use of it.

In the Land of Dharma Nature, I see that people in the human world cannot truly hold onto their own hearts; their thoughts are often changing. As long as one is mentally exhausted or accidentally distracted, the spirit can actually enter other spaces. Not to mention that within a single minute, humans can generate countless thoughts. How to let every thought settle on "Namo Amituofo" and maintain purity and goodness is where one must put in the work in Buddhist practice.

It turns out that practice starts from every single thought, for the purpose of allowing oneself to be the master, so as not to let the spirit be kicked out of the body by the karmic creditors within, or enter the hells to suffer punishment, due to a single deviation in thought.

I know that both of my children are very outstanding and have made great contributions to Shue Yan. But at this moment, I hope you both understand that everything built by Shue Yan is ultimately established on the illusory foundation of the world and has not truly manifested its real value.

What is real value? It is to allow the immortal spirit within everyone's body to be protected, and to allow the spirit that truly represents oneself to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss after death.

This is one thing I want to tell you now, and I hope you both can come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to study and learn how Namo Amituofo uses education to help everyone in the world find their original face. That is compassion and wisdom like a Buddha. Being free from aging, free from illness, and the spirit never dies is not a dream, and rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss is not out of reach.

As long as you can come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to seek the Dharma, you will have the opportunity, after completing your studies, to transform Shue Yan into a truly comprehensive university that encompasses the Body-Mind-Spirit. By then, it will not only be about cultivating talent for the nation, but also having the opportunity to nurture human-flesh Buddhas who can save all boundless suffering sentient beings. The objects saved by each Buddha will not only be Hong Kong, but the entire Earth, and even the immeasurable and boundless planets and spaces of the Dharma Realm. This is a cause truly worth our full effort, and I hope you can all join the salvation team of Namo Amituofo together.

In addition to this, I also hope that Shue Yan University can establish a scholarship to encourage young students who are truly committed to saving the world and helping beings to come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to study. As long as there is any chance to bring one more Buddha into the human world, we at Shue Yan should support it with all our might.

Well, time is limited, and I will not say more. I hope you can all come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to see the Buddha soon, and of course, you can also talk to me.

Gratitude to Namo Amituofo, gratitude to Practitioner Su.