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Recorded by 釋法儒法師
Date recorded 23 May 2026
Interview with Wu Wenjun (Internationally Renowned Mathematician and Founder of Mechanical Theorem Proving)
The World is an Illusion, Seeking Truth in Vain; Only Practitioner Su Has Found It
Ripples Remaining
In the Midst of the Suffering of the Saha World, Only Fragrant Light is a Ray of Hope
Returning for Another Lifetime to Save Beings, Practitioner Su Does So in Every Lifetime
Interview Chief Writer: Venerable Fa Ru
May 23, 2026
Kang Qihua:
Gratitude to and Practitioner Su for leading us sixty prison guards to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. It is pure and beautiful here, without any worries or obstacles. Everything is filled with light; as far as the eye can see, it is magnificent and golden. The land is vast, level, and boundless. It makes my body and mind completely relaxed. The various repressions I felt in the hells have vanished, a truly wonderful feeling.
It turns out that so many prison guards who arrived in the Western Land before me had this same experience. After hearing them share their insights, I kept looking forward to the day I could be led by Practitioner Su to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Today, having truly arrived, I find this world even more beautiful than I had imagined—it is simply beyond words. I can only use the most respectful heart to praise everything before me, and the purity, Goodness, and light I feel at this moment.
I was born in the Song Dynasty in China, a time of social stability and steady living. I managed business with my brothers and sisters, dealing in the sale and transport of timber. We would fell logs from developable forest areas and transport them to processing sites to be made into fine furniture and the beams and pillars needed for house construction. If we encountered noble people wishing to build large mansions, or temples needing construction, we would select the finest, top-tier timber for our clients. As for wood shapes that were difficult to use as beams or pillars, they were made into smaller accessories or processed into wood shavings and sawdust for incense making.
Our family was a very large-scale timber manufacturer in the Shenyang region, adopting a vertically integrated business model. I learned the craft by following my father and older brothers. When I was young and lacked the strength, I could only observe from the side, helping prepare drinking water, meals, and necessary items for everyone. As I grew older, I began working alongside them.
I was the third child in the family, with two younger brothers below me; there were five sons in total. We were diligent and could handle the simple processing of timber felled on the mountain before transporting it down. At the same time, we employed many workers to help complete these tasks. However, as the family business grew, many chambers of commerce and peers gradually became aware of our reputation. Some were willing to cooperate with us, but others grew jealous seeing our development go so smoothly, wanting to compete with us rather than let us take their business.
Facing these weathered many storms, my father did not actually pay much attention. He often admonished me: "As long as there is profit, there will be conflict." This is unavoidable in the business world. My father taught me: if you want to truly profit in the long term, the most important thing is to ignore these conflicts.
Regardless of what others do, as long as we act upright and smoothly, we do not need to worry. Even if there are ups and downs in profit and loss, as long as we uphold fairness, justice, and a heart of service, doing our own part well, everything else is only temporary and will not affect the business operations. I kept my father's teachings firmly in mind and always implemented his philosophy. As the business expanded and my father grew older, it came time for the handover, and the brothers began to decide on the next successor to the family business.
Everyone knew that such a role required considerable foresight, a thorough understanding of the entire business and chamber of commerce, as well as high-level social skills and sufficient technical expertise to shoulder this heavy responsibility. I knew I was not the right person for this, so I did not actively seek the position.
However, my brothers were very eager for the status of successor and all hoped to take on this role, which led to some disagreements. I knew this would become a hidden danger for the future division of the family, and I had advised everyone not to be too fixated on the position of successor, as only by working together in unity could the family business continue to develop.
But my brothers did not listen to my advice; instead, they began to fight for power and profit, carving up the various departments and business territories of the family business: some took the upstream logging business, others took the downstream processing and manufacturing. In order to compete with each other, they were no longer as harmonious as before. Because I did not want to get involved in the disputes and gradually felt marginalized, I was eventually forced to leave my hometown to make a living on my own.
I moved to a neighboring province. When I first arrived in the new place, being unfamiliar with the people and the area, I recommended myself as an apprentice to local masters and craftsmen. Relying on the skills and craftsmanship I had accumulated over the years, I hoped to help the local timber merchants improve their standards.
At first, they were a bit suspicious of my intentions; after all, I was an outsider who had suddenly joined, and they did not know what my motives were. But after employing me for a period of time, they slowly realized that I simply wanted to do my job well. So I settled down and continued working. In this process, I was very clear that in the business field, one cannot prioritize competition; one must prioritize cooperation and service to achieve growth.
Later, I heard rumors that not long after, our family business plummeted. This was inevitable; after all, under the overall conditions of competition, if there is no unity and cooperation internally, it cannot be operated for long. I no longer had the heart to look back at the past, wanting only to focus on the new environment and the new city, continuing to operate my specialty. When I was twenty-five, I met my wife. At first, I did not intend to marry, because being alone away from home with no support, no father, and no mother, I really had no ability or qualification to start a family. But she was the daughter of a senior member of our chamber of commerce, and she saw that I was simple and honest, without excessive pursuits, and without the competitive mentality like others. Thus, we settled down.
After having a family, I became more active in managing my own business. To provide for my wife and children and avoid repeating the same mistakes, I carefully taught my children the ways of conduct my father had taught me. At the same time, I repeatedly admonished them that our family's decline was due to competition and discord, so they must never go down that path.
I worked in the same chamber of commerce for my whole life, specializing in timber processing and the subsequent manufacturing of furniture. People highly praised my craftsmanship because the works I produced carried a kind of simple, gentle feeling, without flashy designs or being unconventional; they were just practical furniture or accessories. Sturdiness and durability were my main considerations. Many large temples and official residences used the furniture I made. I always felt very gratified that someone recognized my philosophy and works; that was truly the most joyful thing.
When I was sixty-eight, I contracted a strange illness, and my body became increasingly weak. I passed away that winter. I did not leave much wealth to my family. However, I believe that the skills I taught my children, as well as the principles of conduct, were enough for them to make a living anywhere, so I did not worry about them too much.
After death, my spirit returned to my original hometown. I still held a little attachment to my hometown in my heart. I was a bit worried and also curious about the family business and the final whereabouts of my brothers. Seeing the mansion that no one was cleaning anymore, and the scene of people having left, I knew that this family must have weathered many storms, and I no longer had the heart to delve deeper. I wandered in the space of my hometown's land and mansion, not knowing what to do.
After an unknown amount of time, two officials from the hells invited me to accompany them. I did not understand where I was going, but these two did not mean to harm me, so I entered the hells with them and arrived at the Yama Hall. Yama sat above with great majesty, looking straight at me, but I did not feel fear, just quietly looking at Yama.
Yama asked me what my thoughts were on this life.
I reported truthfully to Yama: "In life, there are too many tests of competition and desire, and too many situations that test the human heart. Many people find it difficult to pass, and do not understand the principles behind it. Often, because of a little selfishness, the whole situation is ruined, just like my family."
Yama nodded and asked me: "Are you willing to serve as a prison guard?"
Yama also said: "Because it is not just your family that is like this now; most people do not understand the principles of conduct. Although they are well-read in poetry and books, they have not truly mastered them or integrated them into their hearts; they remain superficial, stuck in writing and ink. In reality, the deviations in mental notes and the wickedness in behavior—they think no one can discover them, but in fact, every bit is recorded in the ledger, and after death, they all come to the hells to receive punishment. I hope you can help these ignorant spirits understand their mistakes; if they can repent, it will help reduce their punishment and suffering."
I nodded, understanding the task Yama had entrusted to me, and so I took on this job. I served in the hells for hundreds of years. Having served in the hells for so long, it truly made me sigh: the human world lacks true Buddhist education. Most people, after briefly leaving the hells, return to the hells again; it seems they cannot escape such an ending. Even if they have the chance to go to the animal realm or the ghost realm, they still have no chance to turn things around. And in this long process, the created cannot be repaid. Later, the hells began to play the talks of Practitioner Su, which could be heard very clearly throughout the hells. Every time I heard the content of these sutras, my heart would light up. I thought this was the power of Goodness that my father had taught me, and at this time, the Buddha's teachings were even more thorough. I find it difficult to describe such an excited feeling.
After all, this was the first time in hundreds of years that I had encountered the light of life. It was a ray of light that appeared in the long-standing predicament of having no way out in life, and it was the great love to save beings. So I listened very carefully and tried hard to learn the principles within. The Buddha's teachings, combined with my personal observations in the hells, truly explained the various states of life and human personality very thoroughly, and also perfectly explained the fundamental reasons why beings in the hells find it difficult to leave.
When I served in the hells, I saw my brothers all receiving punishment in the hells, and even my father, who taught me and was so kind, was receiving punishment in the hells. At first, it surprised me, but now I understand that parents also have a share of responsibility for a child's mistakes. Facing such family problems really makes one feel miserable.
I began to think back carefully. I had indeed put a lot of effort into family education, hoping that my two children could be serious in their conduct, otherwise, I would also have a considerable responsibility. Today, having returned to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss and looking back at Earth, I see it very clearly. In fact, it is not that everyone is unwilling to learn Buddhist education, nor that they are unwilling to serve society with a heart of Goodness and good deeds, but because they really have no way to be the master. Throughout your many lives, there have been too many beings harmed, which is why they are controlled from the moment they are born. In education and growth, they have absolutely no way to decide what they want to learn. For content of Goodness, they avoid listening and avoid learning; for knowledge that is not good, they learn very quickly.
This is the situation that people generally encounter. Only when one's good roots, , and Causal Conditions are sufficient, does one have the chance to encounter the Buddha's teachings and truly listen to the education of Namo Amituofo. Here, I also advise everyone: if you have the chance to encounter it, you must grasp it and not miss this precious human body. Gratitude to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for giving me the opportunity to be interviewed.
Kang Qihua, representing sixty prison guards, in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, bows in gratitude for the Buddha's grace of Namo Amituofo, and bows in gratitude for the grace of Practitioner Su.
Namo Amituofo.
Kang Qihua
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