An Interview with Pope Francis in the Western Dharma-Nature Land

World Religions: One Family

(Birth name: Jorge Mario Bergoglio)

Interviewer: Fa Ning

13 July 2026

Pope Francis:

Namo Amituofo.

For the first time, appearing as a spirit to write an open letter or conduct an interview for the people of the world is such a special event, and what is most special is that I am now reciting "Namo Amituofo" at any time and in any place.

I would like to share good news with everyone in the world, as well as the 1.4 billion Catholics globally: I am the former Pope Francis. You must all consider me a devout Catholic, but I have now arrived in a Buddha-land. Do you know what a "Buddha" is? Haha! Please do not be surprised; listen to me carefully as I explain.

As Pope Francis, I represented 1.4 billion Catholics globally, but today I have taken refuge in the Buddha’s gate and have become a devout disciple of Namo Amituofo. This matter sounds truly wondrous, yet there is no conflict between these two. If we were to discuss this from a macroscopic perspective, I believe that religion does not truly exist. In terms of Buddhism, everyone considers it a religion, but as I see it now, it is entirely an education that teaches everyone the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, and it does not carry any religious colour.

Therefore, although I was once a Catholic, I can also believe in the Buddha! This is because what I believe in is not just the Buddha, but the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way; it is also believing in the self-nature and Buddha-nature within every person’s heart, and believing that everyone can attain Buddhahood. This is the truth, the reality that is now truly and clearly presented before my eyes.

Of course, people might think that everything spoken of in Catholicism seems quite different from Buddhism and has no connection. If you think this way, you are truly mistaken. In fact, every religion and every sect in this world represents only a small piece of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way. These various puzzle pieces, when put together, form a complete Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way.

As a Catholic in the past, what I understood was indeed just one piece of this vast Universal Principle. However, having arrived in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I now know that what is taught here is the integration of this puzzle. This is where the Buddha’s teachings are truly more profound and special: the true Buddha’s teachings, under the guidance of Namo Amituofo, can piece together these various small fragments into a complete picture, allowing everyone to clearly see the composite map of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way.

Therefore, there is no right or wrong, and no distinction between good and evil, among religions.

Take Buddhism, for example; it actually has many sects, and each sect also represents a piece of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way. Everyone chooses a different sect to practise because, within the vast spiritual life, we have all formed different Causal Conditions and experienced different ways of learning. Where one’s Causal Conditions are deep, one will naturally choose that sect’s way of practice in this lifetime, or choose the learning method of another sect. The same logic applies between religions.

However, why do I say that I can now see the full picture of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, rather than just a small puzzle piece represented by each sect or religion?

That is because I have found the Buddha who can piece these fragments into a complete picture. In the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I met Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, these two Buddhas, who opened the door to the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way for me, allowing me to see the full picture of all these matters. Of course, I cannot say that I have truly seen the full picture of everything yet; I feel that I am still a beginner, humbly and modestly learning from Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su in this Buddha-land, the Western Land of Dharma Nature.

My heart has always been very peaceful and serene. I look much the same as I did when I was in the world, yet deep within, I am much more settled and stable than before, and I no longer have so many of my own thoughts and views. Looking around, I seem to be the first Catholic Pope to have arrived in the Western Land of Dharma Nature. Popes throughout history have all been reincarnated within the six realms of rebirth, living different lives in different places. Only I am so fortunate that, after leaving the human world last year, it took only a little over a year to arrive in this Buddha-land.

In the year or so since I left the human world, everyone has long since grown accustomed to the fact that I am no longer there. The next Pope who replaced me is also a very excellent talent. The two of us are the only Popes in history to come from non-European countries: I am from Argentina in South America, and he is from North America. I was the first, and he is the second.

Looking back on the experience of this past year, I must say it is truly wondrous. I walked through a lifetime, reaching the age of 88, and now I have arrived in a world of the Buddha. To speak of this really requires some effort, because it is truly too miraculous. I have been in the Western Land of Dharma Nature—this Buddha-land—for over a month, and I can say that I see the facts and truths of everything in the universe very clearly. I have also been actively exploring everything I knew before, combining it with what I have learned now to study the connections between them. The connection between religions that I introduced at the beginning of this letter is the truth I have explored here.

Let me tell you, after I left the human world, my soul did not actually return to the side of the Heavenly Father, but instead lingered in a grey and dim space for over a year.

Although this space did not make me feel very painful or oppressed, I always knew that this was not the place I was ultimately meant to reach. There must have been some task waiting for me to continue lingering in this place, waiting for me to complete the task in this space one day before I could return to the side of the Heavenly Father. I always comforted myself in this way, so even though I was a little lost in this dark space, I never lost my faith in the Heavenly Father.

What was I doing in that space?

I was always preaching, that is, spreading the doctrines of Catholicism, and I never stopped. It turned out that there were many Catholics in that space who had also been living human beings on Earth, and after death, they were trapped in these spaces, originally living lives of wandering and confusion.

However, my arrival truly ignited some hope for them. They did not expect that they would encounter me, their Pope, in the world after death. They believed that I was a gift sent by the Heavenly Father to help these beings in the spiritual realms, who had become ghosts, to attain liberation. I very actively spread the doctrines of Catholicism in that space, leading everyone to pray together and to help and support each other in the same space.

This year or so seemed very fulfilling, but I did not know that none of this was a path to true liberation. Although I was able to help as many people as I could within my capacity there, what about the days that followed? Could I really return to the side of the Heavenly Father? This was always a question mark for me. I did not receive any instructions or messages from the Heavenly Father; I simply relied on my own firm faith and the conviction of helping others, persisting as I went along.

Later, just over a month ago, I suddenly heard someone calling my name, calling "Pope Francis." I thought it was the Heavenly Father calling me, and there was a light shining upon me, making me feel incomparably warm. I firmly believed that this light could take me back to the side of the Heavenly Father, so I rode this light and arrived directly in a world called the "Western Land of Dharma Nature."

Before my eyes were the tall and majestic Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su. I looked and felt that this did not look quite like the Heavenly Father I had imagined, but I did not have any doubts. Because I knew that the image of the Heavenly Father in the eyes of the people at that time was only an image presented by people in the world, and it did not necessarily represent the true appearance of the Heavenly Father, so I firmly looked at Namo Amituofo before me, believing that this was my Heavenly Father.

Later, after I had been purified here for a period of time, I gradually came to understand that I had not actually returned to the side of the Heavenly Father. This Buddha, called Namo Amituofo, is the Buddha who established the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.

To me, the word "Buddha" was originally very unfamiliar, but as we gradually understood it clearly, we realised that the concept of "Buddha" represents the highest spiritual realm that every person can attain. Those who reach this realm can be called "Buddha." After attaining Buddhahood, one no longer needs to enter the six realms of rebirth to suffer, no longer needs to suffer in the long spiritual life, and can truly achieve the ultimate goal of "ending birth and death and transcending the three realms."

I asked the Buddha, "Then where is my Heavenly Father?" The Buddha told me that my Heavenly Father is already in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.

I thought, does that not mean Namo Amituofo is at a higher level than the Heavenly Father?

Namo Amituofo compassionately said to me, "Everyone is a Buddha; everyone’s self-nature and Buddha-nature are equal. It is only because there is still a little bit of defilement in everyone’s heart that they cannot attain Buddhahood. I believe that your Heavenly Father can also attain Buddhahood in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss one day."

Upon hearing this news, I felt very surprised, yet also very comforted. It turned out that my Heavenly Father had not yet attained Buddhahood, but had already received the guidance of Namo Amituofo and arrived in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Therefore, my heart became more settled, and I firmly believed that by practising in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I could one day have the opportunity to return to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, and at that time, I would be able to reunite with the Heavenly Father.

Of course, I no longer have any such attachment, because whether it is the Heavenly Father or any other being, they are all equal in my heart; they are all good seeds for attaining Buddhahood, it is just that everyone is still on this path of practising to become a Buddha.

In the Western Land of Dharma Nature, one of the most surprising teachings to me is that Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su often say that learning from the Buddha means reaching the state of being "free from aging, free from illness, your spirit never dies." I thought about it, and realised that a true Buddha can reach such a height.

Compared to my own cultivation in this lifetime, was I very far from the Buddha? I was indeed old, and I was ill. In the end, when I was old, even though I had done good deeds my whole life and had been working hard for the sake of beings, why did I still fall ill, and why did I die from a stroke and organ failure?

I thought about it, and it must be that I did not follow the teachings correctly in some way.

During my time in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, besides reciting the Buddha’s name, making prostrations, and listening to sutras and hearing the Dharma, I also had some time to think about and reflect on the things that happened to me in the past. Combining this with everything said in the Buddha’s teachings, I realised that I had indeed not truly followed every aspect of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, which is why my body eventually deteriorated and I left the human world.

I was a devout Catholic my whole life, which is the same as the vast number of people in South America. In the last ten years or so of my papacy, I was very dedicated to caring for various fields outside of religion, giving support to people from all walks of life. People might think I was a very approachable Pope, and I think I probably was! My heart was often very quiet, without too many afflictions, but for the subjects I was passionately concerned about, I still carried a strong heart of attachment.

Especially my concern for the poor, social issues, and the natural environment were subjects I was very actively involved in. In the final years of my life, whether it was education, environmental protection, or concern for the marginalised, refugees, immigrants, and other poor masses, these were all responsibilities I believed I had to fulfil as Pope. I did not want the Catholic Pope to appear in the eyes of the world as only caring about matters related to his own religion; what I wanted to achieve was a kind of inclusiveness, allowing all faiths, ethnicities, and cultures to merge into one. In this turbulent and uneasy society, only by achieving true world harmony can we lead people towards true equality and harmony. This was the most important goal I pursued throughout my life.

In the days before I passed away, you should all know that I suffered from illness, and later died from organ failure due to a stroke, leaving me no time to explain too much to the world. Looking back on my life, I still feel very satisfied; I did many things I wanted to do and helped the people I wanted to help.

It is a pity that in the end, I still grew old and fell ill, lying in bed unable to rise, my whole body weak and powerless, having to rely on a wheelchair to get around. This is a true portrayal of my later years. Most people or any religious group would not find this strange, as birth, aging, sickness, and death are considered the natural state of human existence. However, after arriving at the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I realised that birth, aging, sickness, and death can actually be avoided. If one can receive the education of the true Buddha’s teachings—that is, the education of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way—everyone can achieve this.

This is not something only known to modern people. In fact, as early as over 2,500 years ago, Shakyamuni Buddha in India had already explored this truth, proving that birth, aging, sickness, and death can indeed be avoided. I did not have much understanding of Buddhism at the time, but now I know that this is the same concept as what Practitioner Su, who has attained Buddhahood in the human world at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia, calls being "free from aging, free from illness, your spirit never dies."

It turns out that the Buddha’s teachings are such a profound field of study, having mentioned this concept so long ago. Today, 2,500 years later, Practitioner Su can still prove at the age of 83 that one can be "free from aging, free from illness, your spirit never dies." This is not a coincidence, but rather how the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way naturally are. Everyone could have lived a life free from aging, free from illness, and where the spirit never dies; it is just that most people have not had the opportunity to explore this truth, and thus assumed that experiencing birth, aging, sickness, and death, as I did, is the norm.

Regarding the death of the physical body, the Buddha’s teachings certainly acknowledge it; the physical body is illusory and transient, and there will always be a day when it perishes. However, how one can ensure the spirit never dies, and reach a better place to attain eternal joy, depends on one’s own practice and cultivation.

In terms of the Buddha’s teachings, the ultimate goal of practice is to be able to "realise one's true nature and attain Buddhahood," so that one no longer has to suffer the pain of the six realms of rebirth, and can lead all beings away from the suffering of the six realms of rebirth to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Ultimately, what is a Buddha?

The word "Buddha" actually refers to the self-nature and Buddha-nature that everyone inherently possesses, deeply hidden within every person’s heart. It only depends on whether one can wash away all defilements and let go, to achieve the same state as a Buddha. Attaining Buddhahood is not an easy task, because everyone who wishes to attain Buddhahood must reach a state completely free of afflictions and without any obstacles. Yet, attaining Buddhahood is also the height and potential that every person can reach while they possess a human body in this lifetime.

Because everyone is inherently a Buddha, this is a fact that every Buddha will tell every person. Everyone has the existence of Buddha-nature deep within their hearts, but in this long, endless river of spiritual life, we have covered up our own Buddha-nature time and time again. That is why people become all kinds of different individuals—good people, bad people, and people with different temperaments. However, all these defilements in the world can be removed; there can be a day of purification.

The Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is a Buddha-land built by Namo Amituofo. Of course, every person who attains Buddhahood can actually build their own Buddha-land; this is naturally how it should be, it just depends on everyone’s different capabilities.

Take, for example, Practitioner Su before me. You may not be able to imagine that he is also a Buddha, but he still has this physical body existing in the world, so he does not exist only in a spiritual form like other Buddhas.

Having said this, looking back at the Catholic doctrine I studied, I wanted to return to the side of the Heavenly Father, but I did not know that the Heavenly Father could also attain Buddhahood, and could, like all of us, continue to practise in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss to reach the same state as a Buddha. Then why could the Heavenly Father not attain Buddhahood while in the Heavenly Realm?

Let me tell you the truth about this. It turns out that beings in the Heavenly Realm, although they live very good lives and are respected by people, still have to live through birth, aging, sickness, and death. It is just that this sickness and death do not arrive as early. Their lifespans are generally very long—hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of years, or even longer. Therefore, beings in the Heavenly Realm have greater blessings and can enjoy various good lives within the Heavenly Realm. However, when their lifespan ends, they still have to walk the path of the six realms of rebirth.

I now truly understand that the space one inhabits after a person dies, and all the spaces in this vast universe, are so unique. People go to different places to continue with their spiritual life (or human life) based on their own heart and mind. The good and evil, right and wrong in people, do not need to be judged by the people of the world; rather, the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way have already seen all of this clearly.

This is why my Heavenly Father, as a very pure, kind, and compassionate person, as well as Jesus and the Virgin Mary, whom everyone knows, are actually in the Heavenly Realm.

According to Practitioner Su, because she attained the state of realising his true nature thirty years ago, her eyes were opened to see all the situations of the twenty-eight layers of the Heavenly Realm, and he learned that they are all in the eighteenth layer of the Heavenly Realm. This is a Heavenly Realm with a very high state, proving that their cultivation while in the world was very pure, kind, and compassionate, but there were still some attachments that were not completely let go of. That is why they could not truly transcend the six realms of rebirth like a Buddha, and reach the state of "ending birth and death, and exiting the three realms."

As for me, having lived to the age of eighty-eight, to be honest, I was not as pure, kind, and compassionate as they were. I also made mistakes, and there was much good and bad in me, but most of the time, my heart was thinking for the sake of all beings. Regardless of their background, religion, culture, or ethnicity, I treated everyone equally and did not make distinctions because they were Catholic or not.

However, in handling many matters, there were times when I could not look at everything with the most fair and impartial heart, and I still had my own subjective views and attachments. This is why I could not ascend to heaven like them, but instead arrived in this spiritual realm, becoming a priest spreading the teachings within this space.

When I was in the world, I was born in Argentina, South America. As a child, my family lived an ordinary and warm life; everything was very simple. Later, I studied and became a chemist (technician). Although I did not obtain a formal bachelor’s degree, my involvement in the scientific field in those early years allowed me to explore some areas of science that I was interested in.

Later, the country experienced many wars and chaos. It can be said that we lived through several years of miserable, unstable, and turbulent times. At that time, warlords and left-wing factions were fighting for power to varying degrees, which also caused many people to disappear for no reason in places then known as concentration camps. Many people were perhaps mistaken for left-wing activists or suspected of participating in various activities, and thus were arrested, disappeared from people’s sight, and never returned to their families.

I could see that some governments truly wanted to do things for the people, but their positions conflicted with those who had vested interests. Therefore, these stakeholders, whether representing the power of wealthy tycoons or warlords, would always carry out many protests or obstructions. In the midst of various struggles, I spent a long time witnessing the joys and sorrows of the human world, as well as the pain of broken families and being torn apart from their families.

That was when I truly began to develop compassion, and I also learned that all the constant changes of the world are not something that we ordinary people can control. Therefore, at a young age, I decided to let go of everything worldly and become a priest. Gradually, because of my excellent leadership skills and compassionate heart, I became the highest position in the Argentine diocese—the Archbishop. Because of my contributions to protecting the people and spreading the teachings, I was later elevated to Cardinal, which led to the series of events where I was elected Pope by everyone after the previous Pope resigned.

Throughout this life, I have paid special attention to issues of people’s livelihood. Because my family was an immigrant family that moved from Italy to Argentina, I deeply understood the difficulties faced by the children of immigrant families, as well as the various anxieties and needs of immigrant families.

Therefore, I always gave eager attention to the many refugees from Africa, the Middle East, or various countries in Europe at that time. I knew that the scenes of war they experienced were not something that we children who grew up in happy families could understand. I hoped to use my influence to make more people pay attention to these issues, and also let more people open their hearts with greater tolerance to face all of this.

Although I am an optimistic person and often face all the difficulties before me with a smile, when these things happened one after another, I would naturally combine the experiences I had in Argentina with the situations at the time. However, sometimes this was not the best solution, but I did not know it, so there would always be some of my own thoughts and views in it.

Regarding the topics I cared about, I had relatively firm attachments, believing what was right and what was wrong. In some of the details, I did not always have a complete grasp. Although everyone saw me as a very open-minded and kind person, it was these subtle points in the mind that actually determined a person’s destination after death. The Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way are not empty at all; they are just like that.

I was already considered a person with a relatively clear mind, but occasionally these afflictions would arise and get stuck in my heart. Accumulating them for a long time also caused my own body to have illnesses, which led to the illnesses I experienced in my later years.

Throughout my life, I always presented myself to the world with a very approachable and frugal image. Regarding worldly possessions, I really did not have many desires or feelings, but there was still this powerful "I" that existed. Without truly letting go of the "I," it is impossible to escape the six realms of rebirth!

Now I finally understand the Buddha’s teachings. The meaning of the word "Buddha" is a person who can truly understand all the truths in the universe. In the past, I had never met a Buddha, nor did I know that such a profound Buddha’s teaching existed in the world that could explain all phenomena. If I had known the Buddha before, I would have definitely thought that all of this was superstition; but now, having seen all of this, I truly admire the Buddha’s skills.

Because only after a person attains Buddhahood do they have the ability to ultimately save beings from boundless suffering; this is a state that my Heavenly Father has not yet been able to reach. Although the Heavenly Father, like Jesus and the Virgin Mary, can all help beings with whom they have karmic affinity based on the height of their own spiritual growth, they can still only help them reach the same state and the same level of practice as themselves. They cannot let them possess a higher state than themselves, nor can they help them escape the six realms of rebirth.

Therefore, now that everyone is gathered in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, we have discovered that everyone is equal before the Buddha, and everyone is a Buddha. There are no more religious divisions, and no distinctions of high or low, you or me. This is the truly equal and harmonious world. The world I longed for in the past was indeed like this, but in my heart, I had never known the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss or the Western Land of Dharma Nature, so I could not envision this truly equal world.

Now, I truly admire Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su. Whether in the human world or in the ten directions, the beings they have saved are truly immeasurable and boundless, and even the demon crowds are within the scope of their salvation.

In the past, when we were Catholics or Protestants, everyone had the same concept of demons, but we did not know that a person who has attained Buddhahood can save demons and can even lead them to a Buddha-land like the Western Land of Dharma Nature. The Buddha’s mind-capacity is so vast and boundless. Now I truly admire it, and I hope that here I can learn the Buddha’s skills step by step to help more people in the world attain liberation.

I will stop here for today, and I hope that more of our fellow Catholics can see this letter of mine, and that everyone can have a deeper exploration and understanding of the spiritual world.

Gratitude to Namo Amituofo, gratitude to Practitioner Su, gratitude to everyone. (Waving hand)

Namo Amituofo

Pope Francis